Tuesday, May 17, 2011

Rodcast 58: Sorry! (again)

We need another intern.

I forgot to switch microphones again. You can still hear everything, it just sounds like you're eavesdropping from the next room over.

Anyway, Rhett and Alexis stopped by on their way to an eternity together. Pete finagled his way into Mormon exclusivity and Jon apparently brought a "heated" element to the conversation.

Download here!


  1. I haven't even listened to this whole thing yet. I'm only at 27 minutes, but this is the most depressing/anger inducing episode I've listened to.

    I agree with Alexis and I agree with Jon. The methods of this big singles ward might be funny to active members and people who are on the "inside" but the message it sends to non-members, investigators and struggling single members is insulting.

    Church is social, but that's not it's purpose. It's purpose is to bring you closer to Christ. It isn't responsible for finding your wife. Find your own damn wife.

    If you're not going to church with other singles doesn't mean you have no chance to meet anyone. Have faith. Have faith in yourself to step beyond your past social behavior and have faith in the Lord to lead you to someone.

  2. I'm putting part two of my comment first because I lost the first part and have to figure out where it disappeared to.

    I do agree with Jon, though, on the Church not having the responsibility to fulfill social needs for members. One of the things I most respect about family wards is that attending meetings there is about worship. It isn't a show. It isn't about your clothes or your makeup or your anything else. It isn't about attraction of the opposite sex. It is about the Lord. If you find your spouse in your ward, good for you. That shouldn't be why you're there.

    If you attend a family ward as a single person, that is not the white flag of surrender. I thought it was for awhile, but I understand now that it is not. I have too many friends who have gone to a family ward and ended up married in short order thereafter to think otherwise. There is not a ward in this valley (and certainly beyond) where it is absolutely impossible to find a mate...whether the person is in the ward or is somehow related to someone who is. If you think it is impossible to find your spouse in a family ward, that is your own fault, Peter. No one and nothing is forcing that idea on you.

    I was not asked on one date in the five years-plus I attended singles wards. Their simple existence and attendance in them does not guarantee any kind of social success.

    The thing about MP 19 to me is the age group and the fact the Church is about marriage. The Church is (especially) not about letting people over the age of 30 dilly-dally about their future. For those who are "down" for it, this ward provides, as Peter said, people about whom the members of the opposite sex do not need to be concerned. The members of this ward have no excuse not to ask each other out. They have no reason to think they can't get married to anyone with whom they go to church. The excuses are gone. As Elder Oaks said, "It's marriage time."

    Beyond that, though, it IS a safe environment in which to grow and worship. Whether you marry or not, you can feel secure around the people with whom you're attending meetings and activities. It brings the Spirit more strongly into the ward members' interactions, worship, etc. In a time of potentially-great insecurity in a member's life (being 31-45 and single), the security that this worthiness of the congregation brings is needed for this demographic.

    Regarding the Prodigal Son: There is a difference between having joy and having fun. Fun often comes to an empty end, joy does not. If the older brother had had the right perspective, he would have had joy in doing the right things with his life and pleasing his father. He would have been fulfilled by how he'd lived his life and not fallen prey to jealousy surrounding the events of his younger brother's return home.


  3. I loved this episode.

    I agree with Rhett and Peter.

    There are reasons why MP 19 has the requirements it has. There are a lot of creepers out there who would lie about their marital status, whether or not they have children, whether or not they're in trouble with the Church, etc. if they could. There are many who prowl the YSA and Single Adult wards for members of the opposite sex who are really, really wanting to get married and to whom such people could sell a bill of goods. Because this continues to happen in the Church, it devolves upon the leadership to do what they can to prevent such danger. Hence the requirements of MP 19.

    These requirements would only be unfair if this ward were the only ward people of this age group and life situation could attend. It is not. It is a choice. Those who are members of this ward voluntarily choose to live by these rules. Those who do not, do not. The presence of the requirements/rules is not a judgment on those who cannot or do not want to abide by them. It is an invitation to attend church elsewhere now and maybe join that ward some time in the future. Maybe that ward is something to work toward for some people. Nothing wrong with that on either side.

  4. I'm not bothered either way about the MP 19 ward stuff.

    On the one hand, I can see how this type of a ward would be appealing to a lot of people. It becomes a ward of "equally yolked" people who are there for the spiritual aspect first and foremost but want a good social aspect as well. We all know people who only go to church as long as it's beneficial to their social life. It also would keep out the creepers, at least the ones that Rhett was talking about (there are always creepy people in a ward). I think this is the ideal ward for people who are familiar with, and comfortable in, the culture of the Church.

    On the other hand, I can agree with Jon, Alexis and Laura Lee in that will feel very exclusive and unwelcoming to some. Someone who was investigating the church or someone who was trying to become active in the Church again would likely feel intimidated and uncomfortable with the whole thing and not come back. Granted, I think a lot of people in their 30's already know where they stand spiritually, but there will still be a few.

    Overall, it feels like it creates a fantastic ward for those firmly in the Church at the slight cost of the all-inclusive feeling for investigators/less active. I guess of any age group, this would likely be the best group to make that shift for. I'd say that out of your average ward, 75% would love it, 20% would find it weird and attend a different ward and 5% would use it as an excuse to not go to church.

    Great podcast!

  5. I might have heard this all wrong, but it seems like Jon doesn't want to make friends in church? Sure church is for the spirit but when I moved to SLC my only friends came from church. So wanting a ward so you can make friends isn't a bad thing.

    I think SRA is right about the ward being a ward members choose to go to. It's like the BYU of wards, as in- all members can go to any university, but some choose to keep certain rules and go through crazy questions to be accepted to BYU. If the rules are a problem go to another school(ward).

    I do think it's funny that I married someone from the ward. I dated a lot of people, I mean a lot, but the one I married came from the ward. The one benefit I found was from the beginning I always knew Sean's priorities, where as I dated a bunch of non-members or non-actives that didn't have those priorities. Finding the spouse inside/outside of the ward is totally possible.

    And if you want proper invitation etiquette please call me, it was a bane of my existence for a month.