Peter's comment about the rich was about 1/3 of the way through, so...about 17 minutes, maybe?
There have been 2 branch presidents (Spanish branches) -- one down in Draper and one up in Cache County, in the past 7-8 months or so, who have been deported. That's where I got the idea.
What bothered me is that they were called to be head of their Church units. It's one thing to have some other calling, it's another to be the 'face' of the branch...and I had some misgivings about those stake presidents calling them to those positions. Bishops and BPs are supposed to be the vanguard of the ward/branch...'worthy in every way', I've always thought, and so it kind of surprised me that undocumenteds were called to these positions to begin with. It's something I would assume the stake presidency knew about or were told when they interviewed these guys during the selection process...
If callings are inspired, does that mean that when an undocumented brother is called to be a bishop/BP/whatever, is that a statement of the Lord's feeling about illegal status? What a thought that would be to all the "kick 'em out" Mormons in this state...
I told you about the scripture I'd always read during the sacrament...3 Nephi 11:9-17...and thinking about when it will be my turn to have that experience...the gratitude, etc. that I should feel NOW instead of THEN. So...yeah.
Isn't there anything more interesting to do in the great and spacious building than look out the window and make fun of the people on the straight and narrow path?
The "illegality" of the nationality is a rough one. On my mission I had heard that illegal immigrants living in South Africa could not be baptized. But by the time I was there, that was no longer an issue. My brother who served in Southern California Spanish Speaking said undocumented immigrants were the vast majority of the people he taught and baptized. It was explained to me that the church was not interested in their status.
It may be too late to bring this up, but is this a sin? Is it a sin that should allow people to get baptized but not hold callings? How about the priesthood - should they be able to become deacons? Certainly there are different laws of the land and we view them differently - such as speeding vs drunk driving, parking in a disabled parking vs grand theft auto, insider trading vs selling drugs. Why can someone be a bishop if they use the HOV lane when they are alone, but should not if they don't have their green card?
If it's a sin, is it a big one like adultery or a small one like uh... I dunno?
Along those lines, would someone have been unworthy to hold church office if they helped runaway slaves on the underground railroad? Are there laws-of-the-land that are okay to break?
It seems very difficult for me to side absolutely one way or the other since there are so many aspects to this that are not black and white, but I lean personally toward what I believe is the more charitable approach of allowing it to slide and focusing on issues that I think are more important to one's soul.
Blah. I'm rambling.
As far as people having a calling while they are working out their sins... I would say there is not anyone with a calling who is not working out some kind of sin.
Potential Topics (strikethroughs have been brushed on already)
what temple stuff we should talk about
hymns that don't rhyme proper method for passing the sacrament
church attendance Book of Mormon geography amount of meat we should consume why Mormons tend to be Republicans proper church attire EFY
questioning our leaders
paying money for scripture apps responsibility of LDS artists Mormon movies proper method for passing rolls R-rated movies (115)
the Sunday three block schedule
ward choir home teaching
examples of when the scriptures are wrong role of women
phones in sacrament meeting. first day on the mission people we don't want in the Celestial Kingdom(93) caffeine crazy pulpit stories humility fasting favorite Book of Mormon characters
Mormon urban myths Halloween Christmas movies airing of grievances Battlestar Galactica Fast and testimony jokes
rapture -- what's happening? lava-lavas and kilts vacation on Sundays loud laughter
sex seer stones limbo (121) great and spacious building activities(120) outer darkness (112) depression (119) demonic possession(124) life on other worlds (123)
new LDS scriptures
OSC gay stuff
environmentalism
abortion
definition of seeking good things
Dungeons & Dragons
Ward conference
Ghosts
Peter's comment about the rich was about 1/3 of the way through, so...about 17 minutes, maybe?
ReplyDeleteThere have been 2 branch presidents (Spanish branches) -- one down in Draper and one up in Cache County, in the past 7-8 months or so, who have been deported. That's where I got the idea.
Cache County: http://news.hjnews.com/news/article_184b8374-97b2-11e0-b720-001cc4c03286.html
Draper: http://www.abc4.com/content/news/slc/story/ICE-releases-reason-for-LDS-presidents/I9kIrv_SE02TxUjkYNYBzQ.cspx
What bothered me is that they were called to be head of their Church units. It's one thing to have some other calling, it's another to be the 'face' of the branch...and I had some misgivings about those stake presidents calling them to those positions. Bishops and BPs are supposed to be the vanguard of the ward/branch...'worthy in every way', I've always thought, and so it kind of surprised me that undocumenteds were called to these positions to begin with. It's something I would assume the stake presidency knew about or were told when they interviewed these guys during the selection process...
If callings are inspired, does that mean that when an undocumented brother is called to be a bishop/BP/whatever, is that a statement of the Lord's feeling about illegal status? What a thought that would be to all the "kick 'em out" Mormons in this state...
I told you about the scripture I'd always read during the sacrament...3 Nephi 11:9-17...and thinking about when it will be my turn to have that experience...the gratitude, etc. that I should feel NOW instead of THEN. So...yeah.
[End]
[End]
Possible second topic idea:
ReplyDeleteIsn't there anything more interesting to do in the great and spacious building than look out the window and make fun of the people on the straight and narrow path?
Another great podcast. Great second topic.
ReplyDeleteThe "illegality" of the nationality is a rough one. On my mission I had heard that illegal immigrants living in South Africa could not be baptized. But by the time I was there, that was no longer an issue. My brother who served in Southern California Spanish Speaking said undocumented immigrants were the vast majority of the people he taught and baptized. It was explained to me that the church was not interested in their status.
It may be too late to bring this up, but is this a sin? Is it a sin that should allow people to get baptized but not hold callings? How about the priesthood - should they be able to become deacons? Certainly there are different laws of the land and we view them differently - such as speeding vs drunk driving, parking in a disabled parking vs grand theft auto, insider trading vs selling drugs. Why can someone be a bishop if they use the HOV lane when they are alone, but should not if they don't have their green card?
If it's a sin, is it a big one like adultery or a small one like uh... I dunno?
Along those lines, would someone have been unworthy to hold church office if they helped runaway slaves on the underground railroad? Are there laws-of-the-land that are okay to break?
It seems very difficult for me to side absolutely one way or the other since there are so many aspects to this that are not black and white, but I lean personally toward what I believe is the more charitable approach of allowing it to slide and focusing on issues that I think are more important to one's soul.
Blah. I'm rambling.
As far as people having a calling while they are working out their sins... I would say there is not anyone with a calling who is not working out some kind of sin.